Tutka's Top 50...

[FINN]

... #50 is Matt Roik.

I have no debate specifically pro or con yet, tough to tell when your only one guy into the list.

If nothing else though Tuts, you've given me a countdown to look forward too... as opposed to the Election countdown crap!

Haha
~Finn

[thebullet]

This will be a list I can'ty wait tosee all of.

who will be number one? I'm going with probably Nooch or JT, or maybe JGJ.

[zmystere]

No I don't think Roik should here. In fact still pissed about Cosmo trade. Yeah his stats are about the same but he is NOT Cosmo. I do not think Roik belongs in the top 50, he may not even get the starts with Tyler and Bold on the roster.

So there!

[rnsykes]

he's an all star goalie who has never played for a team with a competent defense. Give him a year, and you might change your tune.

[mtbf]

a top 50 list should have about 5 goalies is Roik better than O'Tool, Watson, Cosmo, Thompson, Montour, Vinc, or Dietrich?

[rnsykes]

all of them? No. In my opinion he is as good if not better than several of them though.

[laxinoregon]

Remember this is based on their body of work for the past couple of seasons. I would say that Roik has been better than Dietrich during that time. Dietrich's body of work will likely be better but, that's not the question of the list.

[McSwarmFan]

Originally Posted by mtbf

a top 50 list should have about 5 goalies is Roik better than O'Tool, Watson, Cosmo, Thompson, Montour, Vinc, or Dietrich?

I like the list, but I'm not convinced that this list is even exhaustive for laudable goaltenders. With six players on the field, and one of those playing nearly every minute of games they appear in I think that an arguement could be made for 8 to 10 goaltenders being considered for the list.

[Hollywood42]

roik when on is a top 5 goalie in the entire NLL dont forget who started the 2007 allstar game
that is correct matthew roik

but when hes off
man hes off

[RockStar#666]

Originally Posted by McSwarmFan

......an arguement could be made for 8 to 10 goaltenders....

OK, but, IMO, it's not a great argument.

If you start talking in terms of 10 goalies, that's more than 77% of the starters.

You're only going to have something like 20% of the starting runners in the 40to 45 spots that remain.

One goalie spot per ten runner spots feels about right.

[ND14]

Really, it's ridiculous to even compare goalies to runners. Is Cosmo better than Doyle? How can you tell? What are the criteria?

The same goes for comparing forwards and defenders as well.

[Jstrlaxn]

Originally Posted by ND14

Really, it's ridiculous to even compare goalies to runners. Is Cosmo better than Doyle? How can you tell? What are the criteria?

The same goes for comparing forwards and defenders as well.

Cosmo won the Mike Kelly award for Mann Cup MVP this year so arguably he was recognized for his contributions involving all players. That was also going head to head against Roik and Richards. Cosmo, Watson and Patterson should be on the list. Tavares is #1, Junior is #2, Dawson is #3.

[rnsykes]

Is this an NLL list? Junior isn't playing this season, so no need to put him on the list. Everyone knows he is good, but this is supposed to be the top 50 coming into the 2008-2009 season. Hollywood was correct, when Roik is on, he is a top 5 goaltender. When he is off, he is mediocre at best, but I can name plenty of goaltenders that are the same way. Infact, I saw Cosmo self destruct in philly last season. All goaltenders need to be woken up every now and then. Put Roik behind a solid defense, and and the meltdowns will be fewer and farther between. Top 50 players? Sure. Number 50.

[FOGO]

Is the plan to announce #1 on Champions Cup day? Perhaps he could speed up the process a bit.

[Crabman19]

Originally Posted by FOGO

Is the plan to announce #1 on Champions Cup day? Perhaps he could speed up the process a bit.

I was thinking along the same lines. One at a time is going to take forever! At least count backwards in 5's or 10's or more.

[FINN]

Jon Sullivan - D, Minnesota Swarm

I agree with some of the other posters, Tuts, bro, what's the due date for #1?

The wait between dates is killing some of us!

~Finn

[FINN]

Originally Posted by rnsykes

Is this an NLL list? Junior isn't playing this season, so no need to put him on the list. Everyone knows he is good, but this is supposed to be the top 50 coming into the 2008-2009 season.

Gotta disagree big time rnsykes, per Tuts' first post "will be counting down the 50 best ball players in the pro game" and JGJ even on one leg is a top-10 player [much as that kills me to admit it in public! ] and when he returns [bionic as some have joked] he'll prove [annoyingly so I'll bet] that he belongs at the top of that list.

In fact, ask youself this... if an open NLL draft we're being held today, take anyone you want and form a team, where does JGJ go? I say top 10.

~Finn

[Jstrlaxn]

Originally Posted by FINN

Gotta disagree big time rnsykes, per Tuts' first post "will be counting down the 50 best ball players in the pro game" and JGJ even on one leg is a top-10 player [much as that kills me to admit it in public! ] and when he returns [bionic as some have joked] he'll prove [annoyingly so I'll bet] that he belongs at the top of that list.

In fact, ask youself this... if an open NLL draft we're being held today, take anyone you want and form a team, where does JGJ go? I say top 10.

~Finn

Junior would be Numero Uno based on trade worth alone.

What will the split be between eastern players v western players in O, D and Tranny Positions. Answer: depends if its a East or West writer.

[chuckster]

One thing Tutka fails to mention is Billy Dee's maturity this past season, despite the ref incident in Toronto.

He seems to have gotten the message on what type of game to play, and how to manage his temper when there's alot on the line. The game Smith played in the Championship game was exactly the type of smart, tough game he needs to play.

[rnsykes]

As of right now his future is un-certain, and for this coming season, he isn't worth anything other than maybe his views from the bench. Who knows, that may be his next step. Coach Grant Jr. I don't deny his talent, and I don't deny that he is arguably the best in the world, but he'll have absolutely no influence on the outcome of this season, and thats why I didn't think he belonged on the list.

[Mr Boo]

Originally Posted by chuckster

One thing Tutka fails to mention is Billy Dee's maturity this past season, despite the ref incident in Toronto.

He seems to have gotten the message on what type of game to play, and how to manage his temper when there's alot on the line. The game Smith played in the Championship game was exactly the type of smart, tough game he needs to play.

I was never a fan of Billy Dee until the Buffalo - Philly game in last year's playoffs. He didn't take any stupid penalties, and played tough but smart. I was very impressed. People had said for a while on this board that he was a good player with a bad reputation, but I never believed it -- until that game.

[CW7]

I am very interested in Tutka's criteria for naming the top 50 players in his opinion and would hope he might review this in one of his articles. Thought we could have some fun by naming our own 50 players. The players below are in alphabetical order as I would have a tough time ranking them in order. Note that I have not included John Grant as he is out for the season, but would be up at the top.

1. Mike Accursi
2. Cam Bergman
3. Dan Carey
4. Anthony Cosmo
5. Ryan Cousins
6. Dan Dawson
7. Jonas Derks
8. Colin Doyle
9. Scott Evans
10. Shawn Evans
11. Nenad Gajic
12. Johan Gallant
13. Thomas Hajek
14. Jordan Hall
15. Curtis Hodgson
16. Athan Iannucci
17. Jay Jalbert
18. Tracy Kelusky
19. Brian Langtry
20. Peter Lough
21. Pat Maddalena
22. Blair Manning
23. Eric Martin
24. Andrew McBride
25. Pat McCready
26. Brodie Merrill
27. Shawn Nadelen
28. Gee Nash
29. Nick Patterson
30. Jarett Park
31. Casey Powell
32. Ryan Powell
33. Gavin Prout
34. Lewis Ratciff
35. Josh Sanderson
36. Cam Sedgwick
37. Andy Secore
38. Scott Self
39. Billy Dee Smith
40. Geoff Snider
41. Mark Steinhuis
42. John Tavares
43. Steve Toll
44. Kaleb Toth
45. Ryan Ward
46. Bob Watson
47. Cam Woods
48. Taylor Wray
49. Shawn Williams
50. Jeff Zywicki

[rnsykes]

John Tavares at #42? Wow. I like Seeing Shawn Nadelen at 27. He rarely gets credit from the critics, but is always tops when you ask the players.

[Mr Boo]

Originally Posted by rnsykes

John Tavares at #42? Wow. I like Seeing Shawn Nadelen at 27. He rarely gets credit from the critics, but is always tops when you ask the players.

He did say the list was alphabetical...

[rnsykes]

oh yeah. I got carried away.