NLL Insider

WingsfaninMA · #26 02-04-2009, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougm

yeah but so what, the afl's expense budget was through the roof

Exactly. The NLl teams can average 7-8K and still be ok with their budget. The AFL was to the point where some teams had to make the playoffs to be profitable, even with near sellouts. I mean, that's true in the NHL, but AFL ... something wrong there.

blake1827 · #27 02-04-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lax.slash14228

Why is this not posted in the "Non-Lacrosse" board?

Anyways... I doubt this will affect the NLL.

Because it's RockyNY's thread

DrewDog · #28 02-04-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougm

yeah but so what, the afl's expense budget was through the roof

good point

their salaries were a lot higher. according to this http://the-speccy.blogspot.com/2005/...at-market.html
back in 05 the lowest AFL salary was higher then the top NLL salary

the average salary was 85k in 2006
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1143...rts_primary_hs

RockyNY · #29 02-04-2009, 01:32 PM

So AFL ourdrew NLL, fine.

However, ya right on AFL players salary. It was out of control. While NLL players salary was more manageable.

But will AFL come back in 2010? I dont know. We prolly know more on March 1 but again, who knows?

But its sad that CBA has to suspend its season because it would cause more people to lose jobs. Is that fair? I mean, AFL had laid off many employees. If this was ever to happen to NLL, then those employees would be laid off also.

So, its tragic to see those people losing jobs, regardless if its AFL, CBA, NLL, WNBA or so on.

Roy

laxtreme56 · #30 02-04-2009, 02:20 PM

Another little known fact that helped kill the AFL is that Versus was willing to pay up to $10million a year for the television rights, but the league instead gave ESPN essentially a free ownership in the league to expand its fan base. If the NLL finds a network willing to pay to televise its games, Take it!. Whether its ESPN, Versus, or the Cooking Network.

ThunderTim · #31 02-04-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsfaninMA

Exactly. The NLl teams can average 7-8K and still be ok with their budget. The AFL was to the point where some teams had to make the playoffs to be profitable, even with near sellouts. I mean, that's true in the NHL, but AFL ... something wrong there.

But saying this are there any teams that are profitable in the NLL? The owners claimed in the last CBA negotitiations that most teams were losing money.

WingsfaninMA · #32 02-04-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderTim

But saying this are there any teams that are profitable in the NLL? The owners claimed in the last CBA negotitiations that most teams were losing money.

Knowing who is profitable is a tricky business when the teams share marketing teams with the hockey teams in the city.

My guess is that BUF, COL, TOR, and PHI all make money most years, ROC, CAL, POR, MIN all come close, and the others lose money regularly.

boozinjedi · #33 02-04-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsfaninMA

Knowing who is profitable is a tricky business when the teams share marketing teams with the hockey teams in the city.

My guess is that BUF, COL, TOR, and PHI all make money most years, ROC, CAL, POR, MIN all come close, and the others lose money regularly.

I'm not exactly sure at what is considered profitable,BUT..I remember that when the Knighthawks were sold recently,the price was over $5,000,000!!!

That has to say something there!

XcelLaX · #34 02-04-2009, 11:10 PM

My emphasis added:

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxtreme56

Another little known fact that helped kill the AFL is that Versus was willing to pay up to $10million a year for the television rights, but the league instead gave ESPN essentially a free ownership in the league to expand its fan base. If the NLL finds a network willing to pay to televise its games, Take it!. Whether its ESPN, Versus, or the Cooking Network.

Well, the World Poker Tour did start out on the Travel Channel, of all places. Who knows, maybe they're still trying to fill that void...

And IIRC last year there was even an Italian soccer team (Fiorentina?) that put some of its games on a porno channel. That must have made for some, er, interesting cross-promos...

Vin · #35 02-05-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockyNY

So AFL ourdrew NLL, fine.

However, ya right on AFL players salary. It was out of control. While NLL players salary was more manageable.

But will AFL come back in 2010? I dont know. We prolly know more on March 1 but again, who knows?

But its sad that CBA has to suspend its season because it would cause more people to lose jobs. Is that fair? I mean, AFL had laid off many employees. If this was ever to happen to NLL, then those employees would be laid off also.

So, its tragic to see those people losing jobs, regardless if its AFL, CBA, NLL, WNBA or so on.

Roy

What's on March 1st?

As for the NFL losing jobs, that's ridiculous. I forget where I posted it, but the NFL could solve their problem very easily. Some of these athletes get insane compensation. I don't care if they have short careers - the league minimum for 1 season is probably more than I will get in my career.

RockyNY · #36 02-05-2009, 12:04 PM

Thats the deadline for AFL to reveal a new business model for 2010 season.

The business model that they have been using in the past few season is "broken" I mean, they were losing money so they had no choice to suspend the season.

They hope that new business model will help the league turn into profit. But is deadline set in stone or is it so soft like jello, and no, I dont mean jello shot.

The league are in discussion with players union to adopt similar concept as NHL did. Have revenues tied up to salary cap. From what I understand, players union has filed lawsuit against owners, but thats on hold until they reached deal. If no deal is set by March 1, then it is possible, Im not saying it can happen, but its possible, that legal action may happen.

AFL community, as whole, will get better picture and understanding of the next step by March 1 but is it set in stone? Depend on how close the deal is or business model are.

Roy

swami24 · #37 02-05-2009, 01:36 PM

AFL = Already Forgotten league.

Vin · #38 02-05-2009, 02:04 PM

I don't think so. There's definitely a market for indoor football; *sigh* more so than indoor lacrosse.

laxtreme56 · #39 02-05-2009, 06:18 PM

That's for sure. Even with the loss of the AFL there are still around 80+ teams playing arena/indoor football this year. The Spokane Shock of AF2 have sold out their 10k seat arena every game for the last 3 years and many of these teams/leagues turn a nice profit.

Wings-4-Life · #40 02-05-2009, 07:10 PM

The Reading Express lead their league in attendance too.... I think.

They play in the AIFA and had a sellout of 6,800 at the home opener last year.

dougm · #41 02-05-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxtreme56

That's for sure. Even with the loss of the AFL there are still around 80+ teams playing arena/indoor football this year. The Spokane Shock of AF2 have sold out their 10k seat arena every game for the last 3 years and many of these teams/leagues turn a nice profit.

they watch their payroll, some of those lower tierd arena football leagues have mill-era wages.

Vin · #42 02-06-2009, 03:15 AM

This brings up an interesting question... If one was to rank non-1st tier leagues in the US public consciousness, where the the NLL place?

I'm open, but here's my first pass at the top leagues in the ranking:
1. Minor league baseball
2. MLS
3. AFL
4. AF2
5. AHL
6. MLL
7. NLL
8. WTT
Often, these leagues will have their standings printed in USA Today and that's a decent benchmark.

homer19 · #43 02-06-2009, 03:43 AM

1.Minor League Baseball
2.MLS
3.Arena Football
4.AHL
5.NLL
6.MLL
7.AF2
8.WTT
9.CFL (i know its not in the states but we do get their games on tv here)
10.NISL
11.WNBA

now the ahl and minor league baseball have thier moments in the national spotlight. meanwhile the mls and arena football and the mll have tv deals with espn which makes me wonder why not nll? i guess thats another story for another time.

Vin · #44 02-06-2009, 04:50 AM

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about WNBA. I'd have to elevate that considerably.

About MLL, I believe that they are more of a known quantity here in the US becaue they have ESPN exposure and field gets more press than box.

Yeah, adding CFL is legitimate. I'm not sure if I'd call that non-first-tier though.

RockStar#666 · #45 02-06-2009, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by homer19

......
9.CFL (i know its not in the states but we do get their games on tv here)
.......

CFL has better American TV coverage than NLL.

Also, would you consider WWE and UFC as leagues? If so, as tier two leagues?

They'll bump a whole lot of those other things listed.

Vin · #46 02-06-2009, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockStar#666

Also, would you consider WWE and UFC as leagues? If so, as tier two leagues?

They'll bump a whole lot of those other things listed.

I guess one could include them, then we have to include things like tennis and golf and auto racing too.

So, I say, let's just stick with team sports. However, that is a legitimate concern.

WingsfaninMA · #47 02-06-2009, 08:20 AM

It's easier to list the leagues that get less attention that the NLL in US national media that get more.

swami24 · #48 02-06-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vin

About MLL, I believe that they are more of a known quantity here in the US becaue they have ESPN exposure and field gets more press than box..

DUH........ and thus ends the arguement that the NLL does not need ESPN.

One other note. Only the MLL, NLL and WNBA on that list are leagues that employ the top atheletes in theior sport. the players in every other league mentioned would rather be playing somewhere elsem, NFL, MLB, NHL, NBA...